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No More Mr. Nice Guy: Bower Fired at Southern Miss

Jeff Bower was fired this morning, two days after securing his 14th straight winning season at Southern Miss, per "sources close to the program" or "a member of the football staff." My dad, a USM alum who spent a year decades ago as an assistant with Bower, thinks this is "just awful." I don’t know.

His will be the widespread sentiment even among partisans with no such personal ties, because as long as Bower has been the face of a regional, non-mystique program like Southern Miss, it felt like you knew him. He’s just a guy in manner and speech, and ostensibly deserves some loyalty – he was a successful quarterback at USM in the seventies, an assistant for most of the next decade and a half and his teams in the late nineties were good enough to finish in the top 20 twice (1997 and 1999), shut out Alabama and inch within a couple spots of the top ten as late as November (2000) and dominate its new conference, as good a five-year run as any coach has ever had in Hattiesburg, and good enough to draw serious overtures from bigger schools. Bower was rumored to be the man to replace Ray Goff at Georgia, his home state, but he didn’t go. He was true to his school, graduated his players at a terrific clip, never had a hint of NCAA scrutiny, and that, along with the consistent winning records and bowl games, turned Bower into a kind of low-key institution. Everything Lloyd Carr was to Michigan, Jeff Bower was to Southern Miss.

That analogy cuts both ways, though. As with Carr, despite the undeniable, admirable consistency, Bower’s greatest success is a decade behind him, and the coaching reaper has loomed larger with every new disappointment. Bigger schools have not called in years, not because everybody just knew he was so unwilling to go, but because Southern Miss football dropped off the map. The schemes never changed, the offense never rose from the bottom third of the national rankings; never five wins, true, but never ten, either. Three Conference USA titles in the league’s first four seasons were met with just one over the last eight, and the "winning record" streak consistently hinged on salvaging unfulfilling, 7-5 records against UAB, East Carolina or Arkansas State at the end of the year, even as Louisville and TCU bolted for greener pastures and a respectable league rapidly deteriorated into a midweek distraction, the MAC of the South, with no teams anywhere near the polls. His teams are 16-36 this decade against teams that finished with winning records, any teams, and of the big wins over BCS teams in that span – over Alabama and Oklahoma State in 2000, Ok. State again in 2001, Illinois in 2002, Nebraska in 2004, N.C. State in 2006 – only that Nebraska team (final record: 5-6 in Bill Callahan’s first season) even finished within a game of .500. The biggest victory of the last three seasons was an ordinary home win last year against Houston, which later avenged the loss in the conference championship.

The current team, returning an overwhelming number of starters off a division title in 2006, was the unanimous favorite to win C-USA in the summer, and I predicted it would win double digit games for the first time in Bower’s tenure. With a conference championship game and a bowl game on top of a twelve-game regular season, there was no excuse not to expect that kind of success against such a depleted conference with no other apparent challenger. This was not Bower’s worst team, but against that backdrop, it was his most disappointing. It’s not like the expectations are unrealistic, or that coaches are under a daily pressure cooker. USM is not the kind of place that pulls its hair out with every loss; it is excusable, for example, to lose at Boise State, which has lost once on its home field in five years. It is not excusable, however, to be thoroughly trounced without an ounce of fight or a clue on national television. And it certainly is not excusable under any circumstances – through whatever combination of injuriy, malaise, weather, disease, depression or famine – to follow that disgraceful performance with an all-time horror show of a defeat to winless and completely hapless Rice at home. Bower’s fate may have been sealed there – the subsequent loss to Central Florida was bad, and the subsequent loss to Memphis was bad, but to lose at home to Rice, Rice – Rice! – a team that actually managed to look more inept in victory that night than even its horrible numbers could convey, was the final, depressing link in the evolution from stale to absolutely putrid, the worst defeat of Bower’s career, and doubly unacceptable given the high goals the team still had intact to that point. The season was spoiled there, and with it possibly everything Bower had built Southern Miss to stand for as a mentally tough team that takes care of its business. Anything is possible after a loss to Rice. The bottom is suddenly, horrifyingly visible. There is another bowl game in three weeks, but clinging to an uninspring, six-point win over Arkansas State to secure a trip to the PapaJohns.com Bowl (it’s not sponsored by the restaurant chain, see, but by the web site of the restaurant chain) does not cleanse the foul taste of sub-mediocrity.


The look we know all to well.
- - -
The shame is that Bower had to be pushed after all he’s done for the university, and couldn’t read the writing on the wall and leave on his own terms. He does deserve that. And the move is obviously a risky one, because the odds of USM getting another boss that meets the expectations of a conference championship every three years or so – or that even does what Bower did in guiding the program to eleven bowl games in twelve years – are dramatically lower than the odds of hiring a worn-out retread or generic coach who turns the program into Memphis or UAB, a mediocre team with a seven or eight-win ceiling and a two or three-win floor, and hardly any way to distinguish which result you may get from year-to-year. This describes most of Conference USA right now, and the only reason it hasn’t described Southern Miss as far as I can tell is that Jeff Bower, at the very least, has never allowed the bottom to fall out to such an embarrassing degree. So the Eagles can do much, much worse, and the odds may be that they will.

Can they do better? Yes – briefly. A young hire that pays off in quick success is certainly possible, and will be great for the program in the short term, before he’s poached for big bucks by a bigger school on his way up the ladder. Mid-majors all want to make the splash hire, the Urban Meyer, Bobby Petrino, Steve Kragthorpe, Dennis Franchione, Dirk Koetter, Dan Hawkins who will take the program back into the polls, but the reality is that those coaches will move up quickly or, if they stay – like Bower or his nearest longtime parallels, Pat Hill at Fresno State and simultaneously-deposed Sonny Lubick at Colorado State – they will eventually succumb to the limitations of the location and drift back to the pack, and that coach will eventually stagnate and be forced out. See not only Bower and Lubick, but LaVell Edwards and Fisher DeBerry before them. Hill’s time will come. Chris Peterson will be paid lavishly soon to leave Boise State; ditto Bronco Mendenhall at BYU, or else his program will eventually move to the middle, too, as it did for Edwards. There are no exceptions to this.

I prefer Southern go the supernova route, hire a young, innovative guy and hope he pays spectacular dividends before moving on. At least we’d have those three or four great seasons and get a glimpse at the moon before descending back to Earth. Because in the long run, Southern Miss is just Southern Miss, and I don’t know that anyone can do a better job with that over an extended period of time than Jeff Bower.

(HT: Frequent commenter osuvandy)

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I actually missed the USM coverage that you usually provide on the site this past season -- if I remember correctly, the debacle against Rice made you drop it in disgust.  There is so much hype over who will be in the BCS and everything, it's kinda refreshing to read about someone taking pleasure in "smaller" goals, for lack of a better term. In a world with so much talk of playoffs, hoping to win the conference and go to the Liberty Bowl is part of what makes college football great.

In particular, since I KNOW that you still followed the team closely, (you watch too much crappy football that you don't have a rooting interest in to just arbitrarily quit watching Southern Miss even if they do lose to...shudder...Rice) I hope you'll provide extended coverage on their coaching search.  

by Beatuofa on Nov 26, 2007 1:43 PM EST reply reply actions actions   0 recs

me too
http://www.royalsreview.com

by royalsreview on Nov 26, 2007 2:44 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Tough situation for AD.
Fans wanted more 8 - 10 win season (with 12-14 games) and were tired of losing 5 games a season to "subpar" teams (possibly 6 this year with bowl game).

Possible reason for decline of USM from 1990s is the rise to D1 from programs such as UAB, Troy, FI&AU, U LA La, ULM, etc. where Bower use to grab his talent.  Fans think that the Coach should be able to still grab that talent year in and out.  And some feel that his coaching has been passed up by the ever persistently changing game.  

I for one am not happy about the situation, nor am I too sad.  If he was fired, he was mistreated.  I was more hoping for a resignation or retirement.  But now that the day has come, a lot of people's stomach's are churning.

I think overall the last few recruiting classes have been better, but he already lost 2 of his "biggest" recruits from the his last class and is rumored to be losing his third.

The new coach will not be rebuilding from the ground up, and I hope that the next hire will turn out to be a strong one.

by Eagles Fan on Nov 26, 2007 2:28 PM EST reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Well said.
I think you accurately summarized a lot of the issue in a reasonably short amount of space.  

As a USM alum, I'm neither happy nor angry about coach Bower's departure - just resigned to the knowledge it had to be done.  I wish him the best and hope we're able to find someone who can be at least as successful as he was while maintaining the high level of character that was Bower's signature.

by HarbingerGA on Nov 26, 2007 3:16 PM EST reply reply actions actions   0 recs

A few comments
  1.  As one of the five people who watched that USM-Rice game, SMQ did a pretty good job of describing it.  It was wretched football by both teams that looked like it was played on a construction site.  Are they rebuilding the end zones SMQ?
  2.  As a Rice alum, that was one of the all time disses of Rice football.  It's been bad (really bad at times), but they aren't FIU.
  3.  Excellent job describing the quandary quality mid-major programs have in choosing a coach.  Do you go with the Urban Meyer approach that has high risk (the guy never pans out and is fired 3 seasons later after winning 6 games--David Bailiff is coming to mind), high reward (a few good, maybe great seasons before departing for greener pastures) OR do you go with an elder retread that can bring some stability and credibility to the program, but will probably never win 9 games and may hang on a few seasons too long (Hi Ken Hatfield!).  Tulane's hiring of Toledo comes to mind, UTEP with Price, etc.  I agree with the taking a shot approach, especially if you have a very good AD (Rice did in Bobby May and took the worst D-1A athletic program in the country to spectacular heights considering the limitations and obstacles).  

by DoubleB on Nov 26, 2007 3:45 PM EST reply reply actions actions   0 recs

As a MSU fan, I tip my hat to
Mr. Bower.  In the chaos that has been Mississippi collegiate football over the past 7 years, he's been the stable force.  His teams would have probably disemboweled the 3 previous editions of MSU and Ole Miss football played before 2007.  

by aconstipatedmonkey on Nov 26, 2007 4:00 PM EST reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Wow..
Not really going for much objectivity here huh?  As a Rice alum and supporter it makes me more than a little angry to read your depiction of Rice, and the utter humiliation of losing to Rice.  I am not going to argue that Rice had a good season, or that we were even a good team this year, but it is over the top to describe a loss to Rice the way you did.  Granted we had arguably (and inexplicably given our returning offensive talent) the worst start to the season imaginable this year, but this is a team that went to a bowl last year, went 6-2 in conference and had wins over Tulsa, UCF, ECU, and UTE,P and was only kept out of the conference championship game AGAINST USM by a 31-30 loss to Houston.  Further, in this admittedly horrible season for us, we still managed to beat UTEP again and last Saturday had 700 yards of offense in a 5 point loss to Tulsa, who won the division and finished 9-3.  
So, yes, USM was better than Rice and should have beaten them.  But at least show some level of fairness to Rice--we are 9-7 in conference games over the last two years (since we abandoned the wishbone).  We certainly want to improve and think we can and will, but we are not some patsy that you should be able to walk over just by rolling out the vaunted Golden Eagle helmet.

by Middle Ages on Nov 26, 2007 4:20 PM EST reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Rolling out the helmer: Obviously not
That's the problem.

Before the year, I wouldn't have said the same thing about Rice (7-6, Jarrett Dillard, etc.), but this team was 0-4 and not competitive. They were an undeniably pathetic team over those first four games. Disgraceful loss, the worst in Bower's tenure - USM has lost games it's not supposed to lose, but that was by far the worst - not just the loss, but the extreme ugliness of it, the lack of effort, and the comeback at the end that showed what a walkover it should have been all night - and I think it's what got him fired, actually. Southern has never lost a game to a team that far down the poll - not historically, but at that point, Rice was rock bottom. Sorry.

by SMQ on Nov 29, 2007 7:09 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

No need to apologize
I understand.  I suppose my frustration over our season colors my perception.  But over the last 15-20 years Rice has been competitive more often than not--in the SWC, WAC, and CUSA all--and one or two bad seasons, or even a 4 game bad streak to strart a season and the 'Same old Rice' narrative resurfaces and it's like the good years never happened.  That's what I got out of your comments.  And I don't mean this in a mean-spirited way, but reading your comments along with other USM fans I think I agree with the Pat Forde comment (paraphrasing): Who does Southern Miss think they are?  I'm not sure what advantages USM has right now over many programs in CUSA (and I say that honestly- not to be provocative).  I think you guys will have a hard time replacing Bower.

by Middle Ages on Nov 29, 2007 10:51 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

doubt it
"I think you guys will have a hard time replacing Bower."

As SMQ has already explained, Bower's performance here was pretty much par for the course and actually slightly below the bar set by his predecessors.

Quality coaches looking to make a name for themselves recognize the upside of going to a place where they know without question they can win.  I've been pleasantly surprised by some of the names that have come up.

by Shawn1228 on Nov 29, 2007 11:53 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

a sad day
"in the long run, Southern Miss is just Southern Miss,I don't know that anyone can do a better job with that over an extended period of time than Jeff Bower."

this sentence sums it up best.  the "supernova route," although attractive, is littered with failures.  i grew up going to southern miss games, and was a huge jeff bower fan.  i hope he catches on somewhere and gets back to winning games.  as for usm, they may very well end up reaping what they sow.  

by gerry dorsey on Nov 26, 2007 5:50 PM EST reply reply actions actions   0 recs

My Advice
My completely not-professional advice is go for Charlie Strong. He's a great guy that everyone can root for. He is a good recruiter and defensive mind, and is about a 50-50 chance of being a supernova or turning into Jeff Bower. He's the ultimate hedge, and he's never going 5-7 or worse in C-USA.

by Year2 on Nov 26, 2007 6:50 PM EST reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I just don't get it...
To be fair, I am an outsider to this situation. However, Bower always seemed to be one of the good guys. To fire a mid-major coach with over  a .600 winning percentage over a long period of time... Especially a coach so closely associated with the program seems to be a travesty. What are they thinking?

I guess McCarney is available. Maybe they are trying to bring a second bit of Ames to the deep south... Dan could come in  and give Larry someone to drink some Natty Light with while hanging out with the co-eds, I suppose.

"They took his hair, Tommy. Jesus that's strange. Why would they do that?"

by Brawndo on Nov 26, 2007 8:44 PM EST reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Winning percentage
Bower is slightly under 60 percent (about 58 percent, I believe). His three predecessors, who represent 16 years before Bower, are at exactly 60 percent altogether; individually, Bower is third out of the four over his USM career.

by SMQ on Nov 29, 2007 7:11 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Boise State effect?
The flipside to Utah, Boise State, and (apparently) Hawaii making it to BCS bowls in recent years is that now every non-BCS program thinks it should be stringing together ten-win seasons.  Even ten years ago, when a Tulane or a Marshall would go 12-0, they had no hope of making it to a big-time bowl and had to be satisfied with a mid-level bowl game.  Ten years ago, if you were Southern Miss, you'd take eight wins every year over an undefeated season (but, in Tulane's case, being awful the rest of the time.)  Now, the expectations have changed for the mid-majors, and practically every program is starting to expect the kind of success that Boise State has had.  It's not so much that Southern Miss has stagnated under Bower, but that the level of expectations have changed to the point where it's seen that Bower is not going to be the guy to get them over the hump.

In other words, USM is willing to gamble here for a guy who will get them to a BCS bowl, at the risk that the same guy could run the program into the ground.  They'll take the chance of 11-1 at the risk of 3-9 rather than the safe, seven or eight wins and a minor bowl berth every year that they have under Bower.  Unfortunately, 3-9 is more likely than the 11-1.  I could see this blowing up in their faces the same way that firing David Cutcliffe to bring in Ed Orgeron did for Ole Miss.

by Tom on Nov 27, 2007 3:53 AM EST reply reply actions actions   0 recs

'It's not that Southern Miss has stagnated...'
Yes, it has. USM doesn't want BCS bowls (that would be great, but it's not the goal). USM just wants what it's had before: consistent conference championships and a shot at the top 25, which was always either achieved or within short striking distance from 1996-2000. Before joining C-USA, USM was very good in the early 80s behind Reggie Collier and the late 80s/early 90s behind Brett Favre. USM was a consistent top 20-30 caliber team in three different stretches over 20 years, under three different coaches. That's what Southern fans expect, and the barriers to dominating C-USA now the way Boise State has the WAC prior to last Friday are less than they were eight or nine years ago.

by SMQ on Nov 27, 2007 8:05 AM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

You got it, SMQ
...and that is something the University and fans like us who actually know what in the heck we're talking about need to harp on in the wake of this.

The conventional perception, since Bower was the coach at the inception of CUSA and the rise of The Worldwide Leader, is that Jeff Bower invented Southern Miss football and has won bigger and more often than anyone to ever hold the position, when nothing could be farther from the truth.  Crimeny, his very first game here was a bowl game with Brett Farve under center--our 2nd in 3 years back when bowls actually meant something.  The coach prior to him (Curley friggin' Hallman) had a 10-win season and beat both Alabama and Auburn and lost to Georgia by a whisker during an 8-win season.

Of the 7 coaches including and since Pie Vann in 1949, Bower's winning percentage ranks 5th.  The 14-winning-season streak is impressive and matched by few, but USM went from 1935 to 1967 under 3 different coaches without a losing season, so that's not exactly new here. We were the premiere Southern Independent long before Bower got here; the little team with the big heart that gave SEC teams fits and owned the likes of Louisville, Memphis, etc.  Now we're the team that looks clueless vs. every good team we play and struggles vs. half the bad teams we play.

We are underachieving right now, have been for years, and--this is key--anyone who actually watches USM play week after week knows it. 7 wins are nice, but when there's no good reason it shouldn't have been 9 or 10, you owe it to your players and fans to make the corrections.  Bower continually declined to change the way he does things, so it was finally his position that needed to be changed.

I get a good laugh at the guy on The Worldwide Leader calling the move "a real head-scratcher" after his network televised 3 wholly embarrassing conference losses this season--a season in which we were the consensus favorite to win the whole thing and a Sporting News pre-season top 25.

Coach Bower has done much for us, but excuse the hell out of us, world, for having higher expectations than 4th place in CUSA East and losing 3 out of 4 to Memphis.

by Shawn1228 on Nov 27, 2007 12:42 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

minor correction...
Only 2 of the 3 aforementioned televised "wholly embarrassing losses" were in-conference.  The other was vs. a non-conference, non-BCS program (Boise).

by Shawn1228 on Nov 27, 2007 12:46 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

These are a different kind of 7-5
I had to jump in on this one.  Those of us Southern Miss alum and fans would surely scoff at this comment.  I doubt there are any USM fans out there with any expectations of some miracle BCS bowl bid.  I think our collective unrealistic goal is that elusive battle with Ole Miss or MSU.  As SMQ explained, we just want our title back, so to speak; that "giant killer" mantra; the "Anyone, Anywhere, Anytime" motto that used to be a source of pride, not a slogan akin to "Mission Accomplished."  As SMQ and I watched the Rice game get out of hand to an almost surreal level of ineptitude and saw what may have been the worse defeat in Southern Miss history, on national television no less(Rice fans who take offense must not realize that that loss would have been ANY teams' worst of the year at that point and are totally in denial), I think we both knew that unless Southern won out, Bower had to go.  Throw in a couple more embarrasing losses and a squeaker against Arkansas State and it seems almost inevitable.  My own dad is an alum and one of those fans that always makes it up to Hattiesburg for at least a few games every year.  He's also quick to jump the gun and had been calling for a coaching change ever since Southern slipped down the ranks of C-USA and began consistently losing to Louisville and later, lowlier conference opponents more and more frequently.  Usually I have to be the voice of reason for my dad when it comes to football, but that was one subject that I always agreed with him on.  I'm hoping that Tyrone Nix is up high on the list for a replacement; that's a candidate I could really get behind and one I've heard mentioned weeks ago well before this "forced resignation."  I guess we'll find out soon enough.  

by Roommate Guy on Nov 27, 2007 4:27 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Just another Rice Fan in Denial
Yes- I do understand why you assumed the Rice loss was the worst loss imaginable (I MEAN, FOR GODS SAKE, DOES ANYONE LOSE TO RICE???  WHY DON'T THEY JUST SEND THAT FUNNY BAND OUT THERE AND GIVE UP FOOTBALL???).

There was a very annoying narrative going into that week that Rice was, and I quote, "..possibly the worst team in Divison I.." based on the first four games of the season (in which we were admittedly horrible), but ignoring the fact that we had/ have an all-american receiver in Jarett Dillard, the CUSA total offense leader in Chase Clement, were a one point loss from playing USM in the conference championship game the year before, and were a bowl team.  Here is a hint:  Just because a talking head on ESPN says something, it is not necessarily true.
Rice had a terrible year in its transition to its third coach in 3 years. USM was a better team and should have won this year---but the quality level of the two teams is not all that dissimilar- and if you disagree, you are the one in denial.  I am willing to bet that the game next year in Houston will be close, and based on you guys having a new coach and our best players back that we will beat you again.
Think for yourself- don't rely on ESPN.

by Middle Ages on Nov 29, 2007 10:24 AM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

If you insist on harping on this...
"the quality level of the two teams is not all that dissimilar"

Which is a good sign that it was time to part ways with our coach.

I've got nothing at all against Rice.  Your program has improved tremendously and there are good things happening.  I hope you, as well as the rest of CUSA, starts kicking butt and taking names....BUT, considering where both teams were, say, 10 years ago, that Southern Miss has now met you in the middle is a horrible thing for us.

I assume you saw the game and thus also saw our level of our ineptitude (the Golden Boy deciding going in that our only backup QB should be an injured one who had hardly practiced all week, said QB turning the ball over 6 or 7 times alone).  Even with that, Rice still only managed to win by a whisker.  You guys definitely became a different team by the end of the season, but you were still the same old one on that particular night.  I find myself wondering if Bailiff ever sent Bower a thank-you note for the jump-start.

by Shawn1228 on Nov 29, 2007 2:57 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Sigh......okay --
Since you mentioned it let's look approximately 10 years ago:  
1996- Rice 7-4, USM 8-3,
1997- Rice 7-4, USM 9-3,
1998- Rice 5-6, USM 7-5

USM was marginally better than Rice then.

Look- I am not arguing that Rice's program has been anywhere near as consistent as USM's over the last decade, but we haven't been going 0-11 every year either--which is what one might assume from the USM reaction to losing to Rice (the horrors!).  Just because we were 0-4 going into that game doesn't mean we were 'arguably the worst team in college football' just because you read that in your paper.  Rice had the same players as the bowl team in 2006, and who ended up averaging over 38 pts/ game in conference games.  I did watch the game, and I was almost sick at the end as we almost gave it away.

I'm sorry that you guys bought into the hype and it made the loss that much harder to take.  If we played right now, it would be a close game again, as I am sure it will next year.  

by Middle Ages on Nov 29, 2007 5:22 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Sigh...let's start with the stats game
All time Div. 1 winning % ranking:

Southern Miss comes in at 26th all time with .596

Rice comes in 108th with a meager at best .442

You aren't really trying to say Southern is only marginally better, are you? What was Rice's best coaching era, the Ken Hatfield dynasty?  Or maybe Todd Graham's one season?  And SMQ will vouch for me when I say that the last time I watched ESPN was some dreadful USM loss...probably the one against Rice.

by Roommate Guy on Nov 29, 2007 6:47 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Missing the point
No, of course not.  All I was trying to show was that while Rice seems to always get painted as a doormat (I don't think we were favored in one game in a 7-6 year in 2006) and if you lose to Rice, OMG, your coach should be fired (don't think you are the first to make that statement).  My only point is that the stats over the last 15-20 years don't back that portrayal.  You picked 10 years ago and all I showed was that 10 years ago USM was only maginally better than Rice--not the program or the consistency of it over the past century (or whatever).
My only other comment on the stats you provided is that most of that .442 winning percentage was while we were in the Southwest Conference, so while I am not disagreeing with your overall point- that is not really an apples to apples comparison.
Hatfield was our best modern coaching era, aided by the fact that we had just moved from the SWC to the WAC.  The Jess Neely era (way back) in the 50's-60's was our best era, with multiple SWC championships and New Year's Day bowl games.

by Middle Ages on Nov 30, 2007 10:17 AM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Damn, this is not the point
I'm not talking about Rice's entire historical arc, or even its recent one. I'm talking about that team, that night, the one that began the season 0-4 with a loss to a I-AA team and four non-competitive blowouts and was ranked in the bottom 20 in every major statistical category. Frankly, watching the game, Rice played like a team that bad, and Southern matched it blow for blow in complete ineptitude. Stephen Reaves put up a crippled duck into double coverage in the third quarter that was so unbelievably bad I had to start laughing.

It's interesting that USM wound up statistically dominating that game - overwhelmingly, in terms of yards, first downs, etc. because Southern woke up in the fourth quarter and started a total massacre, which should have been happening all night. It was so bad prior to that, though, three full touchdown drives in six minutes wasn't even good enough.

A disgrace, not because it was Rice, in general, but this specific Rice team. It was that bad, though, there is no denying it. That game was the anvil that broke the camel's back.

by SMQ on Nov 29, 2007 7:18 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Last comment on this I promise.
My perspective on the 4th qtr of that game was that we stopped pressuing Reaves, sat back in a soft zone, and allowed him to gain some confidence by completing as many 8-10 yard passes as he wanted.  Then, as you know, momentum is sometimes hard to stop in those situations.  We did stop it by blitzing and forcing a fumble however.  I thought if we had just kept pressuring Reaves there would have been no comeback--USM looked like they wanted to quit.
I think your view was just colored by your expectations going into the game this year.  If you read the language in your original post it does not seem to specify this Rice team vs. just a loss to Rice (Rice..Rice!)---"Anything is possible after a loss to Rice".  BTW, you wrote that this week, not the day after the game.

And I'm sure I am overly sensitive to disrespect since it seems people (other people, not necessarily SMQ) have that same opinion of Rice no matter the year or the record.  It seems to be SOP to call for your coach to be fired if you lose to Rice.

One last point and then I am done w/ this I promise.  Look at games between common opponents for USM and Rice over the last two years:
2006
UCF-  RU won 40-29, USM won 19-14
Tulsa- RU won 41-38, USM lost 20-6
UH- RU lost 31-30, USM won 31-27
ECU- RU won 18-17, USM lost 20-17
Tulane- RU lost 38-24, USM won 31-3
UAB- RU won 34-33, USM won 25-20

Both finished 3-2 against common opponents

2007
SMU- RU won 43-42, USM won 28-7
Marshall- RU lost 34-21, USM won 33-24
Memphis- RU lost 38-35, USM lost 29-26
UTEP- RU won 56-48, USM won 56-30
Head to head- RU won 31-29

Both finished 3-2 against common opponents.

Look-  we played like s*t our first four games--3 of which were against Big 12 teams--and we had a very disappointing year.  Four games does not a season.

To act like you guys are SO much better that Bower should be fired for a loss to us *I believe is selectively ignoring facts and relying on the old "Rice always sucks" narrative.  I've seen it before.
Now I will quit beating the dead horse.  

by Middle Ages on Nov 30, 2007 11:42 AM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Here are the facts
How about winning percentage from 1996 (when Rice left the SWC) through 2006:

USM  -- 23rd in winning percentage at 64%
Rice -- 83rd in winning percentage at 44%

Not that close.

How about Sagrin ratings of teams from 1998 (as far back as I can find) through 2007:

        USM   Rice
2007   93    155
2006   52      88
2005   64    135
2004   73    107
2003   51    103
2002   68    118
2001   60      82
2000   40    107
1999   14      74
1998   35      56

Average ranking difference between the two schools -- 47.5 places.  

Rice never finished higher than USM and in fact was never closer than the 21 place difference in 1998 (ten years ago) and the 22 place difference in 2001.

USM's worst finish, other than this year, was 73.  Other than Rice's best finish (1998 with a 56), no other Rice season ranks higher than any USM season other than the current one.  

These are the facts -- what are we ignoring?

However, you are correct that we should not resort to the "Rice always sucks" narrative.  In fact, Rice sucked worse this year than it has in any other year over the last ten.  This year's 155 rating was 20 places worse than Rice's previous worst showing (similarly USM 93rd was 20 places worse than its previous worst showing, no doubt influenced by a home loss to Rice).

USM was a 20 point favorite in the game against Rice this year.  When was the last time Rice was a 20 point favorite over anyone?

Rice was 0-4 with a loss to a I-AA school.  How can you not see this as an embarassing loss for USM?

by DukeEagle on Nov 30, 2007 2:42 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I'm Finished--good luck
I was not arguing that point, but whatever--I don't guess you guys are going to get it.  

In all sincerity, I hope you guys get a great coach and get back to where you guys think the program should be-  all of CUSA needs that.   Good luck in your bowl game and maybe I will see some of you guys in Houston next year.

Middle Ages

by Middle Ages on Nov 30, 2007 6:58 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Rice
As a Rice alum, I just want to add one thing.  Yeah we're terrible this year, and most years recently, but I just want you to notice who exactly Boise State's one loss at home in the last 5 years was to.  Yeah, that's right.

by mtobo on Nov 27, 2007 2:54 PM EST reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I don't know if he's available...
...but you could do a whole lot worse than trying to snag Al Golden from Temple.  If he can wring four wins out of that glorified 1-AA team, you have to think he can do some really good stuff at Southern Miss.  

I'm going to be pimping Golden for all sorts of second-level jobs this year - hey, Duke - you interested in actually winning four games in a season before your current players become grandparents?

by sodakboy93 on Nov 28, 2007 1:09 AM EST reply reply actions actions   0 recs

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