Tommy Tuberville: Don't Know Ohio State
by The Iron Colonel on May 31, 2008 8:50 AM EDT
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PrintTommy Tuberville just publically revealed that he knows very little about college football. This is the kind of thing I'd expect from Steve Spurrier (whose mouth and brain apparently are operated by two different systems that have never encountered one another), but Tommy Tuberville? He was in that click-clack commercial, wasn't he? I would have thought Under Armor would have used someone who knew something about football.
Go ahead, post your comments about OSU being 0-9 against the SEC. Be my guest. Show how your statistics indicate that losses from 35 years ago influence recent games. I'll gladly eat the hat that I'll put on right before needing to eat it if someone can provide some kind of reasonable explanation for how OSU would finish 5th in the SEC. Until then, Tommy Tuberville knows nothing about college football and is a bitter husk who got screwed out of a chance to get blown out by USC.
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harsh words....
But maybe true to some extent, he sucked at Ole Miss, and sanctions all but wiped out his in-state recruiting competition when he got to Auburn…...... Ah… but the worm is turning, I expect a “retirement” in the next few years for Tommy T. His over sized ego, wont allow him to hang around for 6 more years with the way everyone else in the SEC is loading up on recruiting. If he stays 3 more years his teams will be getting drug all over the field in the SEC games.
For the record
This has been sitting here a while, but I would like to note Tommy Tuberville did not suck at Ole Miss. His record there was 26-20; he had three winning seasons there in four years (8-4 in 1997) despite being saddled with probation and scholarship sanctions from the end of the Billy Brewer era (as well as being at, you know, Ole Miss). UM fans will never forgive him for leaving for Auburn, but I grew up in the state and I recall at the time that his tenure there was considered a minor miracle under very adverse circumstances.
Tommy Tuberville should focus on his team doing something worthwhile. He has done almost nothing since that one year where Auburn was screwed out of a title chance.
I can guarantee you that Ohio State would have mopped up Auburn in a game. It wouldn’t even be close. I’d love to see Tommy Tuberville out gameplan Jim Tressel.
It wouldn't be close?
Have you lost your brain? Those 2 teams(Florida and LSU) that greased OSU the last 2 years in the NC game Lost to Auburn(Florida) or won on a last second 40 yard TD throw to a covered man(LSU). And OSU would have walked all over them? Are you serious? You got treated like the prositutes that walk the campus of OSU by the SEC the last 2 years on the biggest of stages and you honestly still think ya’ll are that great? What? Is this an OSU fan or an Alabama fan? I ask cause you both have such similar traits of delusional thoughts.
Also, Paratiger...
...if you want anyone to take you seriously, lose the poor “insults.” They make you look bad and take away from any substance your posts may have. “Prostitues?” Seriously?
My apologies
Sorry for the insults. Caught me at a bad time. I actually got that from some of your Ohio natives when i was in Columbus in 2000. A friend and i wanted to visit the campus but was told to bypass it because it was in such a run down part of town. That there was prositutes walking around and there was alot of crime around there. Seriously!
So as to quell misconceptions (I was at OSU from '99 to '03):
In 2000, the area south of campus wasn’t super nice, but it was under redevelopment. Campus itself was nice then and is nice now, and it’s a shame you didn’t get to visit due to poor advice. That it’s unsafe has never crossed my mind. I’ll never argue that the area south of campus is god’s gift to safety and beauty, but nowadays it’s pretty decent thanks to said redevelopment.
The whole prostitute part is flat wrong, though. (Insert Antonio Henton joke here).
Transitive property doesn't work
Just ask Michigan, Illinois, and Ohio State (Michigan beat Illinois, who beat OSU, who beat Michigan), or any one of a hundred other such loops.
I guess a Longhorn fan would be the last one to go to on analysis of a coach’s worth.
Mack Brown is praying for another Vince Young everyday so his team can actually make it to a BCS bowl again.
The title of this post has been edited
No name-calling, please.
The content has not been changed in any way.
My apologies
Probably not the best choice of words. Hard to believe that someone in such a position could be so myopic as he has shown himself to be with his statement, particularly when Auburn has wallowed in mediocrity for the past few years, but he is entitled to to his opinion.
by The Iron Colonel on Jun 2, 2008 5:18 PM EDT up reply actions
Wallowed in mediocrity huh?
so the fact that we’ve beaten 9 of our last 11 top ten opponents isn’t all that great. Or how about the fact that we’ve 50 games over the last 5 years isn’t all that special either. Oh, and did i mention that we did it in the toughest conference in the nation? Also why don’t you just check out for yourself what we’ve done to the SEC teams that we’ve played over the last 5 years as well. Its just a shame that we don’t get to play in your pitiful conference. With your opponents is not a wonder why ya’ll go undefeated (until you play an SEC team that is.).
YOU ARE ABSOLUTELY CORRECT. CTT DOES KNOW WHAT HE IS TALKING ABOUT PUTTING OSU AS BEING FIFTH IN THE SEC-——-IT REALLY SHOULD BE MORE LIKE 9TH.
I hope, for your sake, that that post was exaggeration for comedic effect. There is absolutely no way OSU goes 3-5 or worse in the SEC last year (which would have been good for t-9th). They’re almost certainly not going 7-1, true, but I don’t see any way they finish worse than 5-3, with a reasonable shot at 6-2 depending on the schedule.
Let's analyze it...
Let’s go ahead and take a closer look at where tOSU would rank in the SEC. You would kind of have to concede that they would be ranked behind Fla and LSU because of recent events. That’s third place already. Then, if UGA is as stacked as everyone is predicting, then that would drop tOSU to fourth. Then you still have to consider Tenn, USC (two Outback Bowls would way into the arguement), Aub, and Ala. So, where exactly would you rank them….... At the best fourth (don’t really see that) and at the worst 8th. So a ranking of 5th in the SEC seems pretty reasonable.
What kind of sad ass logic enters into your mind that using past bowl games would affect how good the current team is.
The SEC has some success in the past 15 years and they think they invented football.
“What kind of sad ass logic enters into your mind that using past bowl games would affect how good the current team is.”
So let me get this straight….. recent performance is a bad measure of current ability. How are you supposed to measure it then? Yes we would like to be careful of getting to deep into a round robin of A beat B beat C beat A arguments. But, until any team proves their ability on the field, all speculation is just that, guess work. Right now, tOSU has not shown that I can perform well in the post season. Until it does, it will come under critisism from other team’s fans and coaches. Especially in this day when all these programs are recruiting against each other. Prove it on the field and then you can talk. Until that happens, your just going to have to take the crap.
By the way. I actually have a lot of respect for the program. I am a South Carolina fan, but I don’t pretend to say that USC is a better team because we beat you in back to back Outback bowls. The Gamecocks have entered a downturn while SOS has been remaking his team in his image and undoing a lot of the damage that occured during the Holtz era. Until we can prove it on the field, we can’t talk smack, either. See, it doesn’t just apply to tOSU.
by Charlestowne on Jun 10, 2008 5:53 PM EDT up reply actions
I really cannot believe some of the things you have said. It makes me feel much better that I have no connection to South Carolina.
So let me get this straight….. recent performance is a bad measure of current ability. How are you supposed to measure it then?
How, exactly, does using bowl games from 2001 or even 2006 show you anything about the 2008 team? You can’t say it does.
Right now, tOSU has not shown that I can perform well in the post season.
Again…what does that have to do with this years team? Losing to a very experienced and fully healthy LSU defense that is no longer playing college football shows what?
And we haven’t proved we can win in the postseason? How about when we won the national title over the “invincible” Miami in 2002/03? Or when we walloped Notre Dame and Kansas State in Fiesta Bowls? Or how about when we destroyed a Les Miles led Oklahoma State team? But those don’t count, right?
Especially in this day when all these programs are recruiting against each other. Prove it on the field and then you can talk. Until that happens, your just going to have to take the crap.
Ohio State’s recruiting is at an all time high right now. In fact, we are taking top players from down south almost yearly. This year we are extremely happy to take Jaamal Berry, the top running back in Florida, from every single team down south. You see…we are relevant nationally. I’m not sure South Carolin ever has been.
The Gamecocks have entered a downturn while SOS has been remaking his team in his image and undoing a lot of the damage that occured during the Holtz era.
Oh good. Denial. Spurrier has failed miserably at USC. It has nothing to do with “undoing damage”. He can’t recruit with the big boys and his teams don’t execute. It’s as simple as that.
Because a team doesn’t go undefeated doesn’t mean they had a bad year. Hell, 118 teams have a bad year every single year then. I was perfectly happy with last years result.
First, I never claimed South Carolina is “relavent nationally”. I have no allusions that we aren’t going to compete for a national title anaytime soon. Second, you completely missed my point about recruiting because you are to busy being angry. My point was that you have to expect to take shots like this from fanbases and opposing coaches when recruiting is no longer a regional event (your Jaamal Berry reference kinda proves my point). As a side note, a 5th ranked recruiting class nationally in 2007 isn’t all that bad. Also, SOS kicked 13 starters off the team when he took over the program, if you don’t think that has effected our win-loss ratio, your crazy (But it was good for the program in the long run). Thrid, I never said that games from 2001 are relavent to the teams health now. I was making the point that you have to consider tOSU’s place in the SEC with relation to other teams besides Fla and LSU. All of the teams that I listed, including USC, can compete with tOSU on the field on a year-to-year basis. No game against those teams would be a automatic W for tOSU just like they aren’t for any other SEC team. By your own admission, tOSU didn’t take the games seriously allowed themslelves to slack during the period between the regular season and the bowls. If they continue that trend, they are going to continue to get blasted by fans, media, and the occasional coach.
“How about when we won the national title over the "invincible" Miami in 2002/03? Or when we walloped Notre Dame and Kansas State in Fiesta Bowls? Or how about when we destroyed a Les Miles led Oklahoma State team?”
I also think that its ironic that you blast me for looking at past post season games and then take other past post season games to bolster your side of the arguement. You can’t have it both ways.
Personally, I have nothing agains tOSU. I really don’t have a horse in this race. But if tOSU continues to lose in the post-seaseon, especially in major BCS games, they are going to make it tougher for them to make it back into those games despite their regulare season performance.
by Charlestowne on Jun 11, 2008 12:41 PM EDT up reply actions
Outback bowls from seven/eight years ago?
How are those relevant? They’re not.
Also: “Then, if UGA is as stacked as everyone is predicting, then that would drop tOSU to fourth.” Polls seem to suggest OSU is as stacked, if not more (see SMQ post).
Florida/OSU now versus two years ago isn’t a good comparison. How many contributers are left from either team? Should we compare Louisville and Missouri from two years ago?
Can I argue that Florida would finish behind Michigan in the Big Ten this year because UM beat Florida last January? By your selective logic, apparently I can.
Seems about right to me
Yeah i’d have to agree with tommy’s assessment. Sorry OSU but in your 2 most recent outtings against the SEC (not counting your previous encounters) you got mopped up in a relatively easy fashion. We beat florida in 2006 and LSU barley won on a last second 40 yard touchdown pass in 2007. Both of those teams wore ya’ll out in the NC. Hell, LSU lost twice in SEC play and still took you to the woodshed. You can listen to TMC1 if you want too but he is an alabama fan so we know where his loyalities lie. In the basement with his team. Now what confuses me about OSU is that you’ve got the atheletes to compete with us, and i know Jim’s a good coach. So it must be the fact that you play such a cup cake schedule that by the time you get to the NC game you think your Gods and the SEC puts you back in your place. It sounds to me like Charlestownecock has things about figured out placing ya’ll at either 4th or 5th place. So yeah tommy’s just about right in his assessment. But go ahead and get mad, hopefully we’ll get a chance to find out what kinda men ya’ll are again this year. If ya’ll would quit crying and give up this so-called marriage that you’ve got with USC (cause lets face it, they are the Pac-10) and the Rose Bowl then maybe we could get a tournament started and really decide who the real champion is. But i suppose that ya’ll are scared that you might have to play more than 1 SEC team in that tournament. Thus further embarrassing yourselves and your already awful record Vs real teams (The SEC teams).
Listen…using the enter key would do a world of good for you. I’m not sure if that course is taught at Auburn but I wouldn’t be surprised considering the quality of education there.
Now what confuses me about OSU is that you’ve got the atheletes to compete with us, and i know Jim’s a good coach. So it must be the fact that you play such a cup cake schedule that by the time you get to the NC game you think your Gods and the SEC puts you back in your place.
We played one soft schedule last year. Ohio State will play anyone anywhere. I can’t say the same for SEC teams. Tennessee is the only team that musters an ounce of respect for scheduling from me. Georgia point blank refused a home and home with us. They refuse to travel to Columbus.
In 2006 we didn’t show up. Period. I pity the team that faces a pissed of 2006 Ohio State team that doesn’t party the night before the game like we already won. I pity the team that faces the 2006 Ohio State team that doesn’t have its starting quarterback gain 15 pounds and forget how to throw a forward pass. Trust me…we deserve everything we got for not showing up in 2006.
In 2007 we got to the game losing out quarterback, running back, two linemen, and our top two receivers from the year before. 50% of our team our team was new starters. Yet we played in the game because sorry ass teams like you couldn’t even handle Mississippi State or South Florida.
If ya’ll would quit crying and give up this so-called marriage that you’ve got with USC (cause lets face it, they are the Pac-10) and the Rose Bowl then maybe we could get a tournament started and really decide who the real champion is.
Nine out of eleven conferences vetoed further discussion on a playoff. If you want to continue the fallacy that only the Big Ten/Pac Ten don’t want a playoff then continue with ignorance. You are an Auburn fan. I cannot reasonably expect more.
Georgia
I have no interest whatsoever in petty “conference superiority” arguments, and there’s no way I will support the thesis that Ohio State 2008 would place 5th (or 9th or 1st) in the SEC, because, well, it’s just not interesting to me.
But I would like to know more about this “Georgia point blank refused a home and home with [Ohio State].” When? Source, please? I know our AD has approached Michigan about a home-and-home (UGA’s travelled twice to Ann Arbor with no return trip), but Michigan’s AD declined to discuss the possibility (no judgment there – probably because extending the ND series was in the works). UGA has trips in future schedules to Tempe, Stillwater, Louisville, Eugene, and Boulder. Dooley was notorious for declining to schedule trips outside the region, but it’s simply not been an issue since his retirement in 2004.
This is the first time I’ve seen any suggestion that Ohio State wanted to come to Athens, and I’d like to learn more about it.
Many thanks.
by NCT on Jun 6, 2008 7:31 AM EDT up reply actions
Georgia contacted Ohio State two years ago about traveling to Athens to play. Ohio State’s athletic director, Gene Smith, agreed to open discussion on the topic. The talks broke down because Georgia wanted Ohio State to come down and play in the near future (2007-2009) while putting nothing in writing about a return trip. Georgia refused traveling to Columbus then and the talks ceased.
Also, around 2002 there were talks with Georgia that ended with a flat refusal for a home and home.
I don’t think you are going to find any of these in the paper. Obviously, it’s going to be a leap of faith for you to believe me but these talks did break down because of Georgia’s refusal to put anything in writing about a return trip.
Thank you
I mean no disrespect, but I can’t accept this as fact without some sort of source. I have no doubt that UGA may have refused a home-and-home in 2002, because Dooley was still in charge. But two years ago? I’ve been following reports of Georgia’s scheduling efforts very closely since Evans became AD, and there’s been nothing about Ohio State. Yes, I could have missed something. No, I don’t think OSU would have a problem coming to Athens if the schedules could be worked out. Thanks very much for your response. I apologize for interrupting the discussion.
by NCT on Jun 6, 2008 5:02 PM EDT up reply actions
I realize this was a knee jerk inflammatory post...
but I honestly can’t understand why Tommy Tuberville feels it necessary to try and pile on a team that has been, by any measure short of championships, one of the most successful of the decade. I actually have quite a bit of respect for Auburn and Tuberville as a coach, and recognize that he is prone to hyperbole, but isn’t this slightly ridiculous?
Auburn, as far as I can tell (and correct me if I’m wrong) placed 5th in the SEC last year. Is he trying to imply that his Auburn team is the equal of Ohio State? It’s possible, though the information available doesn’t support that conclusion. I just can’t see any logical reason for TT to blast a team like this unless he’s just trying to be offensive.
by The Iron Colonel on Jun 6, 2008 11:10 AM EDT reply actions
I can understand that.
Perhaps given your play against the same LSU team that barely won 3 games(against Auburn, Alabama, and Florida) and lost to Kentucky and Arkansas gave him enough insite to make such a claim. Actually Tuberville is usually better than to make such claims, but in this case he did so with the information provided to him. Where i’m confused is whether he was talking about the upcoming season or last season. Cause it seems to me that he would be talking about last season. Tuberville is USUALLY pretty good about not talking trash unless your alabama. But hey i could be wrong. It wouldn’t be the first time.
(There is that better gahnki) Granted ya’ll have been very successful in this decade but you’d have to admit that your conference as a whole is in a down period. Its not a bad thing. It happens to all conferences from time to time. Thats not to say that Ohio isn’t a dominating team but its hard to judge yourselves when you lose strongly against opponents with a worst record from another conference. Do you see what i’m saying here? As gahnki points out, I’m a stupid and uneducated…...hehe, so i just want to make sure i’m getting my point across.
Oh and sorry for my knee jerk reaction to your article and some others posts. Caught me on a bad day. What can i say….. I, like you, love my team and my coach.
Perhaps given your play against the same LSU team that barely won 3 games(against Auburn, Alabama, and Florida) and lost to Kentucky and Arkansas gave him enough insite to make such a claim.
If you put a healthy Glenn Dorsey and a Ricky Jean Francois you have an entirely different defensive line than the one who played during most of the regular season. Also, it is almost impossible to judge regular season games against bowl games. Teams have a month to get healthy and anything in the playbook is used and practiced. Ohio State received the best LSU had to offer. I cannot say the same for Kentucky or Arkansas.
And no one is stating that the SEC is not strong. It is obviously the strongest conference. But maybe you should look at the head to head match up between SEC and Big Ten teams in the last two years. The past two years bowls have had the Big Ten-SEC go 3-3 against each other.
And I apologize for stating that Ohio State would have killed Auburn. There is no way for me to know that as a fact.
Exactly
Thats my whole point about a playoff. Speaking of which, It has been public stated that the Big 10 and the Pac-10 are the strongest voices against the playoff system introduced by Georgia’s President and the SEC commissioners. Saying that Tradition of bowl games should prevail. (Hence the love affair statement).
Actually the lose to Kentucky was just that, a lose. everyone was healthy and it was relativily earlier in SEC play. During the Arkansas game was when the health was in question and exactly why McFadden and Jones ran amuck on them. But couldnt the same be said for Ohio State. they actually had more time and less games to heal from and work on gameday preparation, since they don’t play in a championship game. Which i’m confused as to why every major conference doesn’t adobt a championship game. But hey, thats beside the point.
I said that its somewhat because of your conference because having a stronger conference to play in better prepares you to play tougher opponents. Thats why boxers choose to spare against tougher sparing partners to better prepare them for an upcoming fight.
I still think that Tuberville was talking about last season. Saying that eventhough you were favored to win your conference you would have been 5th in ours. whether or not that would have happened is anyone’s guess, but looking at your play Vs LSU and their (LSU’s) play against the conference (the SEC), one would have to think that he was right in that call. I’m sure that he wasn’t trying to start anything but i guess looking back it does seem like an asinine statement.
And i have no idea why Georgia refused a home and home series against ya’ll. Not up on those facts. It could have been scheduling problems, money(which seems most likely to me), or something else. i highly doubt it was because they were just scared to play ya’ll. But like i said, i don’t know. I’ll just have to take your word for it.
In my mind the NC is a myth anyway. The BCS claims that they will pit the 2 best teams together playing for a championship. But i think thats crap. Aside from the 2004 debacle, 2003 claims to be split between LSU and USC….? ok whatever. And Georgia was playing better than anyone in the minds of many analysis at the end of last season and they got pitted against Hawaii…? Until there is a playoff or at the very least a plus one it will always be left up to PEOPLE to choose who they THINK it belongs too. Thats crap! To be a true champion, you should have to win it on the field of play. Against the best teams that have played and won their right to be there. Thats why its like that in every other sport at every other level. Imagine basketball without march madness. Thats why we play a championship game at the end of the year in the SEC. It pits the 2 best teams against each other. Those teams have played everyone on their side of the conference and then they have to play the best from the other side and then you’ve got the true champion. Georgia should have been there last year cause they were better than tennesse but they lost early to them and well thats just too bad for Georgia. Just a lil confusing thats all.
And Georgia was playing better than anyone in the minds of many analysis at the end of last season and they got pitted against Hawaii…?
If the regular season is to have any meaning whatsoever (the usual argument of those opposed to a playoff, not that I agree), you can’t just go by “who’s hottest at the end of the season”. It has to be the entire season’s work … and Georgia failed on that count. They didn’t even win their own division (yes, I know they tied for the title, but they got clobbered by the team they were tied with); if we’re only going to pick two teams, there will be at least two more deserving teams 99.9999% of the time.
Your right.
99.9999% of the time there will be a more deserving team. Thats why a 4 or 8 team tournament should be instituted. Its not going to get rid of bowl games. Its not going to make the season any less competitive or exciting. And sure there will still be teams left out that many felt like deserved a chance to play in that tournament, but atleast with 4 or 8 teams you will get a better chance to crown the right NC because the best teams would have fought it out on the field. Not on someones piece of paper. Plus the teams that really heat up at the end of the year (which happens in the SEC alot) will have a chance to move on to a Real NC game.
Plus, since when do you have to win your divison to play for the NC? Oklahoma has played for the NC without winning their conference. As a matter of fact, didn’t they get hammered in the Big12 championship game that year?
Thats why a 4 or 8 team tournament should be instituted. Its not going to get rid of bowl games. Its not going to make the season any less competitive or exciting
An 8 team playoff would dilute the regular season by a large degree. You would then have two loss teams competing with zero loss teams in a playoff. I don’t think that’s exactly fair especially if the undefeated team has a bad game and the two loss team heats up. Then, the team that was consistently strong in the regular season is out of the playoffs because an inconsistent team with talent caught fire at the right time.
If a two-loss team can get through three games against the top 8, by the end of it they’ve probably got a better overall season than anyone else.
If the 2 loss team played a tougher schedule and is still in the top 8 despite the 2 losses
then why shouldn’t they deserve to play? 8 teams enter the 4 BCS bowls now. Are those 8 teams not considered to be the best 8 teams out there? If they are then why shouldnt they each have a case to play for the NC? Using peoples perceptions to choose a NC is wrong. Too much goes into that kind of evaluation. And thats just to pick the top 2. Atleast picking the top 8 gives you a cushion to make sure that all the right teams get a chance to play. Plus using 2004 as an example, when 3 teams from 3 major conferences go undefeated then someone gets screwed. How do you fix that? Do you just continue to say, “sorry, you didnt play hard enough or you just didnt beat your opponents bad enough”. “You won all your games but because these other 2 teams went undefeated your just gonna have to play in another bowl”. Something has to change. Either that or you just have to take away the NC altogether. The current system is flawed and we owe it to the young men that work their hearts out to fix it.
The current system is flawed and we owe it to the young men that work their hearts out to fix it.
lol…you couldn’t care less about the young men. The only reason you and other fans want a playoff is so you can feel content about a national title. An 8 team playoff is too much. I’m all for a 4 team playoff because it solves the problem every year except for last year. And even four teams can be considered too much. Like in 2002 when there were two undefeated teams and a bunch of team with two losses. The right teams played for the title that year.
lol…the comment still stands, though. Any fan that is claiming that they want a playoff for the “young men who work their hearts out” is quite ridiculous. If we gained nothing from it we wouldn’t be fighting for a playoff. I am all for a smart playoff plan, but it let’s not bs about why we want one.
What?
Ok surely i would like a playoff so that it would be great for the fan. But honestly its for the atheletes. How do you tell the guys that won the games “too bad but your not gonna go, sorry”. We, the fans, didnt work our asses off to get there and win all those games. We didnt participate in 2-a-days in the august heat, or play hurt in the games that mattered because our team needed us in there. Why don’t you ask the players what they would prefer. See what they’d have to say about it. And sure i don’t know what your all about but i would like to know that if my team(the players) worked that hard and got that far then they should deserve a chance to play for all the marbles. Sorry but it is flawed and the system does owe it to those guys to make sure that everyone has an equal opportunity to play for a NC. Otherwise what is the point of having a NC game? And i’m not just BSing either. Basically its just a game for those that have the clout in the media and a mythical fairy tale for the rest of the nation.
Yeah a plus one is great but how do you decide which half of the BCS games get the nod and which 2 don’t? Truly its a start but not the ultimate fix. But hey i’ll take anything over the current system.
Oklahoma at least won their division that year, and let’s not forget that going into the championship game they were the only unbeaten (and had been so dominant that even with a loss, they would have a pretty solid case for being ahead of one of the other one-loss teams). Even after the championship game, they had one loss in conference, and the only team that could match that in the Big XII (Texas) got annihilated by them. I don’t have a problem with that selection (other than the fact that choosing two out of OU, LSU, and USC that year was splitting hairs); the difference is that Georgia wasn’t absurdly far ahead of everyone else last year like OU was then.
That said, I’m fully in favor of a playoff, but I think there needs to be some advantage given to the teams at the top. Six teams, all games (except the championship) at home sites, top two get first-round byes. This way, there’s still plenty to play for in the final week – sure, you might be getting in even with a loss if you’re at the top, but the difference between one home game and two road games to get to the title game is pretty significant.
This thread just started...
tOSU JIHAD!
We must protect the fastness of our players from the infidels who worship their false spread offense gods! Show no mercy in bringing up obscure statistics to quantify our hypothetical dominance in their league! Praise be to Tressel!
I know I'm about two days late, but...
I think what most Ohio State fans don’t realize is that in the SEC, there are two or three USCs, Texases and Ohio States vying for the conference crown every year. Usually, Georgia, Florida, and LSU are about as talented as and (and occassionally more so than) those other three teams, and as we have seen in recent years, they are also mostly superior at the head and assistant coaching positions (think about all the SEC assistants taking head jobs elsewhere). As it stands there are five national championship coaches in the SEC – two rising stars in Les Miles and Urban Meyer and two has-been-yet-still-solid ones in Fulmer and Spurrier and one guy who’s kinda in between in Nick Saban. All of these coaches, in my mind are, as good as or better than Pete Carroll and Jim Tressel when you take into account the difficulty of their schedules, the talent they amass, and the demanding fanbases they have to appease. Let’s not forget their bowl record the last two years.
Now, I’m an Ohio State fan, and the above was my sacrificial goat to SEC fans. They wont’ like what I have to say next. Last year, I think OSU would have finished anywhere from 3rd to 5th in the SEC. However, I think most years they would compete for the conference championship, just like Georgia, LSU and Florida are right now. They have the talent and the coaching in my mind, it just hasn’t come together against better, more focused teams the last two years. After years of playing tough SEC schedules, I think Ohio State would be just as competitive in the SEC as the aforementioned teams. Sure, it’d take an adjustment playing Arkansas instead of Northwestern as your cupcake conference game, but they could handle it. There is no massive talent disparity – just ask the guys at Scout, Rivals, and every NFL GM. The talent disparity is basically a cruel joke manufactured at ESPN by perennial haters Mark May and Trev Alberts (years ago, of course). But it doesn’t exist, and I think it’s a lot more intellectually honest of both sides of the debate to recognize this.
In the end, Florida and LSU were both better teams than those Ohio State teams. While I don’t think that Florida team was really 27 points better than OSU, 7 or 8 out of 10 times it beats that Ohio State team, perhaps more. LSU was just flat-out better. It was one of the more talented teams the SEC has seen in years, and quite frankly, if the talent disparity has half as bad as ESPN and some (but not all) SEC homers would have you believe, the final score should have been worse than the Florida game.
I really think the key difference between the SEC and the Big Ten in particular is the coaching. I’ve already stated the SEC’s impressive credentials, which didn’t include the ruthless-but-still-good Bobby Petrino, the improving (it’s hard for him not to be) Sly Croom, and the very-consistent-if-absent-minded Tuberville. The Big Ten simply can’t compare, because right now it’s Tressel and the rest. If you try to name a hierarchy it goes 1. Tressel, and 2. Rich Rodriguez, who hasn’t even coached a Big Ten game yet, but we can all be pretty much certain he’s better than any of the Joes (Tiller, Paterno), Pat Fitzgerald, Tim Brewster and probably Name Redacted. And where do the two I bothered to rank coach? OSU and Michigan. Unless PSU snatches up Greg Schiano or some other hotshot young guy, I don’t see it being more than a two-team conference any time in the foreseeable future. That’s the real difference in my opinion.
by Sam @ WWAHT on Jun 13, 2008 7:14 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
This is late, but...
Is Tuberville correct about last year? Objectively, yes… last year was just a wacky year of college football, and frankly, I think most people outside of Columbus knew that Ohio State was going to have another unfortunate end at the hands of LSU.
However, Tuberville shouldn’t have said that, nor should he have implied that last year is indicative of EVERY year. I’ve agreed with SEC fans that their conference, from top to bottom, is normally the strongest every year for the past decade or so. But where they err in logic is when they assume this means their best teams are better than the top teams of the other conferences. Let’s look at the Pac-10, for instance: I believe the Pac-10 has been overrated for the past several years, and the media doesn’t want to say so because it will reflect unfavorably on their beloved USC. There’s no question the Pac-10 pales in comparison the SEC. However, does this mean USC is overrated? No; USC can take any SEC school on. Collectively, the SEC is better, but the USC can hold their own in most cases. Same with the other conferences.
I’ve always believed that the ‘05 Ohio State team was better than the ‘06 and ‘07 teams that made the title games. They just had the misfortunate of sharing the season with my Longhorns, USC, and a revitalized Penn State. So yes, the past two teams were a bit overrated and got embarrassed by SEC powers. This doesn’t mean that Ohio State always produces duds and that’s why we need a playoff, as Tuberville seems to imply. Remember, a struggling Michigan team that committed a whopping FOUR turnovers still beat Florida and their mighty Heisman winner, Tim Tebow.
We need a playoff to be more fair and to keep chumps out like Illinois (seriously, stupidest selection by the BCS this year, less deserving than Hawaii). Ohio State would most likely hold their own relatively well.
by TheElusiveShadow on Jun 17, 2008 4:52 PM EDT reply actions
Who else would you take?
Missouri? More deserving, probably, but that would have eliminated Kansas (and the opposite if they picked Kansas); I don’t think the Rose Bowl wanted to be the one to decide that. And the Rose Bowl couldn’t take Georgia unless the Sugar Bowl gave them the okay (which wouldn’t happen). Who’s left? Arizona State (for a rematch of the second-to-last conference game of the season)? Florida (eliminated by the “two per conference” rule, and got smoked by Michigan worse than Illinois did anyway)? Boston College (who barely escaped Michigan State, and probably would not have if Saint-Dic hadn’t flunked his math class)?
Illinois didn’t stand much of a chance (although it would have been at least semi-respectable if not for every break going USC’s way – Illinois was still going to lose, the way they were playing, but they weren’t going to get run over by five scores either), but none of the teams left out of the BCS that could have been selected for a BCS spot in their place (remember, Missouri and Florida couldn’t have been selected) had any better case.
Excellent Point
The addition of the fifth BCS game is going to cause this to happen on a pretty regular basis because there’s a maximum of two teams allowed per conference. If there’s no non-BCS candidate and ND continues to be average, that leaves 12 teams for 10 spots. The bowls have never taken an at-large Big East or ACC candidate (for a variety of reasons) which basically leaves the runners up in the other four BCS conferences. And sometimes those teams really aren’t deserving. I thought Arizona State “deserved” that spot more than Illinois, but the bowl rotation didn’t work for them at all.
I don’t think the powers that be thought about this very well when they added the 5th game. There are going to be a lot more Illinois-type teams (and games) in our future which ultimately hurts the bowl games as a whole. They should have kept the 4 games and changed the non-BCS stipulation. That would have left you with OSU-LSU (Sugar), USC-Georgia (Rose), VTech-WVU (Orange), and Oklahoma-Hawaii (Fiesta). Those at least look better on paper than what we got.
Most years, there will be a non-BCS candidate, so that helps things a little bit (although with the weakness of the ACC and Big East, you still have to pick 3 of 4 runners-up from the other conferences assuming Notre Dame is out of the running). Assuming we’re stuck with the BCS for a while, I don’t see the two-team limit changing because of money issues; at best, there will be an exception allowed if there are no other eligible teams (9 wins + top 14).
Anyway, I don’t think Illinois against … well, pretty much anyone besides USC would have been too awful a matchup last year. Had OSU not been in the title game (and we therefore get USC-OSU in the Rose), Illinois facing off against Kansas or WVU in one of the other bowls would have been pretty reasonable (although the argument for leaving AzSt out in that case is weaker).
I agree...
I know that there are limits how many teams can get in per conference. I just think it’s a dumb rule. Why choose teams from conferences that are clearly inferior to other teams just because you get a conference overload? But alas, it is once again money that dictates these decisions. I can think of a host of other teams that deserved to go more than Illinois, whom everyone knew was going to get squashed by USC. It’s pretty silly when everyone knows that, say, Missouri deserves to go more than Illinois but they can’t choose them. If there is a playoff, something like this shouldn’t be allowed.
by TheElusiveShadow on Jun 19, 2008 4:17 PM EDT up reply actions
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