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Following Up: We've Got to Massively Expand This Place

Last week, the buzz was East Carolina (and maybe Memphis) offering to do anything for the Big East – and they mean anything – in an all-out effort to get the hell out of Conference USA. This week, it's ECU athletic director Terry Holland's idea to inflate the league until it naturally cleaves into two separate leagues under one banner, an idea that meets with some non-committal assent from Charleston Daily Mail sports editor Jack Bogaczyk, whose not sure what's up with Marshall being in a conference with UTEP, anyway:

Marshall's home conference stretches from Huntington to Greenville, N.C., to Orlando, Fla., to El Paso, Texas, and back, but maybe that's not big enough. Maybe 12 teams aren't enough.

So figures East Carolina Athletic Director Terry Holland -- and just maybe his concept for expanding C-USA isn't as outrageous as some might think.
[...]
SO, WHAT is Holland's idea for helping create more financial stability and rivalries in C-USA?

It's an expansion from 12 to 16 or 18 teams. It's two divisions under one conference umbrella.
[...]
Holland said in an expanded C-USA, divisional championships could be based on seven or eight divisional games and everyone would essentially play the same schedule each year. It also balances the competition.

In the current setup, if Marshall faces West games against Tulsa, Houston and UTEP and Southern Mississippi plays cross-division foes Rice, SMU and Tulane, who do you think will finish higher in the East?

"My point is," Holland said, "that if you can't go back to eight or nine teams for the conference, then move ahead to eight- or nine-team divisions. Twelve is simply the wrong number in my opinion."
- - -
(Hat tip: The Wiz)


What? They're natural rivals. Just give it another another three or four championship games.
- - -

My first reaction to this was the same as the rest of the conference: thanks, and don't forget to have your parking validated. The WAC tried the 16-team, two-division, continent-hopping format in the mid-nineties, and it destroyed the conference; the older, stronger members balked at the travel and the relative watering-down of the league and split to form the Mountain West, which a decade later is the strongest non-BCS conference (in football, anyway) by a mile and certainly a stronger outfit than the leftovers in the WAC. 

But C-USA already has this problem – it stretches from the Atlantic coast to the far western edge of Texas – and Holland and Bogaczyk are onto the fundamental trouble with the league in its current setup, whose members can be plucked by more attractive conferences almost at will:

Three years in, just who are Marshall's rivals in Conference USA? Real rivals? There's ECU, mostly because the schools are tied forever from a final game before a 1970 airline tragedy and then a wild, double-overtime bowl game.

What other schools? Who is ECU's rival besides -- loosely -- the Herd?
[...]
C-USA, as a new conference and with its geographic spread, can not possibly develop rivalries unless we play each team the maximum number of times in each sport," Holland said. "So playing the West Division teams sporadically does us no good at all.

"I would rather eliminate those games entirely and schedule geographic rivals instead or expand each division and let each division function as a 7-, 8- or 9-team conference under the C-USA banner."
- - -

A smaller, geographically-centered conference with a focus on nearby rivals is a great idea: it's what C-USA was in football, theoretically, before poaching snatched Louisville and sent the conference scurrying to add competitive dead weight in the west. As a Southern Miss fan, the appeal of playing UTEP, Rice and SMU is basically nil: so far, these schools have served only to seize me with some minor fear that USM might actually lose to them – which it did last year, shamefully, in a horror show of a game against Rice that was much more about the progressive suck of the "old guard," if a 12-year-old conference can have such a thing, than the progressive competitiveness of the new. Houston, Memphis and Tulane don't excite me as opponents, but they don't depress me like the new additions, either, because they're natural geographic rivals for Southern and have been on the schedule for years; I remember specific games with all of them that were thrilling or that must be avenged. There's a desire to beat them for the sake of beating them, not just to avoid the embarrassment of a loss. East Carolina and UAB have been in the mix long enough that it's even true of the Pirates and Blazers when they're competitive, though ECU is less of a natural fit, geographically. A rotating schedule with far flung also-rans with zero historical significance as rivals and that only appear on the schedule sporadically drags already suspect interest into the dust. It's much worse for the less centrally-located schools.

But if the end result is two watered-down halves that are only loosely tied to one another, what is the point of even keeping the banner? Why not, like the Mountain West schools, break away in some sensible fashion and exploit the niche? Mainly because there aren't enough teams right now to cobble together anything that looks like an improvement: in Holland's words, "there is no one out there who brings enough value." That might have been true when the league restructured three years ago, too, except for the inherent value of a twelfth team, whoever that had to be to facilitate the conference championship game.

That magic number, along with the subsequent numbers in the bank account, is the reason all of this talk of contraction, expansion and members bolting for greener pastures, for now, doesn't even reach the level of pie-in-the-sky. It's idle offseason chatter. The league has to take into account factors like Rice's national prowess in baseball, about which I could not care less. When the season rolls around, C-USA will look the same, and likely will for a few years to come as long as the Big East bulges at 16 teams in basketball. Everyone involved hates it, apparently, and is growing increasingly restless. But just, you know, grin and bear it, chief.

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Mid-Major Monday: BCS Bustin'

Jul 2008 by SMQ - 15 comments

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Eastern non-BCS refactoring

It seems to me that between CUSA, the Sun Belt, Army, Navy, and Temple (and just maybe pulling LA Tech out of the WAC where it makes no sense) you ought to be able to put together two or three conferences that at least look reasonable on a map.

I’m not sure exactly how, though.

by drothgery on May 20, 2008 1:21 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

What I mentioned in the previous CUSA thread was this:

1) Take the current CUSA East and add Troy, FAU, and MTSU from the Sun Belt,
2) Take the current CUSA West and merge it with the rest of the Sun Belt, and
3) Demote FIU back to I-AA where it belongs.

That gives you a 10-team Sun Belt Conference (CUSA West + SBC) and a 9-team CUSA that has the option to add Western Kentucky if it ever gets good to get to an even 10.

You could even throw LA Tech into the new Sun Belt and export someone like UTEP out to the MWC to give TCU an in-state, in-conference rival of sorts.

The New Sun Belt would have only teams from Louisiana, Arkansas, Oklahoma, and Texas, and the New CUSA would have a similar geographic footprint to the SEC.

by Year2 on May 20, 2008 1:57 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Sorry for being so simplistic

But this seems to be getting to an almost radical overhaul of the smaller eastern and southeastern conferences.

by qrsouther on May 20, 2008 9:32 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

The Solution

If you are doing what Terry Holland said I think something like this would work:

Take CUSA West and add Arkansas State, ULL, ULM, and North Texas from the Sun Belt.

Take CUSA East and FAU, FIU, MTSU, and Troy.

This is exactly what Year2 said. Now you have two divisions that would act as conferences within the CUSA. They could obviously split or stay together, but if they do stay together as Holland proposes to create this huge conference then I think it could work.

The 10 teams simply play 9 games verse each team in their division. They are not obligated to play other teams in the other division, but with 3-games remaining they can schedule whomever they like or look to the BCS teams for their paycheck.

So if you USM you play UAB, Troy, UCF, FIU, FAU, ECU, Marshall, Memphis, MTSU, and then if they chose to could play Tulane and two BCS teams from the SEC/ACC. That would provide a more geographically centered schedule that would allow rivalries to develop and fans to travel.

And of course FIU could always be dropped for a team like Georgia Southern (who I heard would be making the move to D-1A rather soon) or some other team. And LaTech could be put into the West by way of some trade with the WAC.

by McDawg on May 20, 2008 2:42 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Oh, and I forgot...

... winner of each division would play for the CUSA title.

As a viewer with no real allegiance to CUSA or any of the teams in the conference I, as a fan, find this to be very appealing.

by McDawg on May 20, 2008 2:43 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

The point SMQ was making was that having two largely autonomous halves of a conference like what you’re mentioning here is not a good solution:

A rotating schedule with far flung also-rans with zero historical significance as rivals and that only appear on the schedule sporadically drags already suspect interest into the dust. It’s much worse for the less centrally-located schools.

The proposal being made is basically to have a structure like MLB before interleague play, where the AL and NL never mixed and then those leagues’ champions would play in the world series. The thing here is the CUSA East and CUSA West would not play each other in the regular season, but only meet for a title game. It’s a creative, if deeply flawed attempt, to split the expanded conference into separate parts but still get the cash flow of a conference title game.

SMQ’s point is: why even keep the two stapled together anyway? Why not just keep them separate? He says there’s not much of a point to that, and I would agree.

by Year2 on May 20, 2008 3:20 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

My main point...

Is that all these programs suck and represent a really depressing step given where C-USA was 5-10 years ago, when everyone is already unhappy about where the conference is now. That may be reality, but it sucks.

by SMQ on May 20, 2008 3:53 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I never have thought much of C-USA

It’s always been the epitomy of a lower tier conference. How was it 10 years ago? I’ve only been a football fan for 7 or so, and only picked up on the rest of the nation’s football like 5 years ago.

by qrsouther on May 20, 2008 9:30 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

You can't polish a turd

I’m not sure how you cherry pick and add anything that comes up much better than what you already have. Maybe the best thing would be for four teams to crawl to the Big East as football-only schools to give that conference 12 schools. Memphis and ECU may not be that crazy after all if they are pursuing that option.

by EamusAquila on May 20, 2008 9:07 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

I'll bite on this one

I think that it’s bad for the collective toilet when you drop in two new turds that really shouldn’t be playing football in any major conference.

I’m sure I’m not alone here, calling the Big East a major conference. I love Big East football. WVU, Rutgers, Louisville, etc.

I think C-USA should stay as is. Cept for maybe Memphis b-ball —> Big East. That’s been covered though I’m sure. Sorry for being a late comer in both this discussion, and SMQ.

by qrsouther on May 20, 2008 9:27 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

*fixed...

Sorry for being a late comer n00b in both this discussion, and SMQ.

by qrsouther on May 20, 2008 9:28 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I'll say this for CUSA rivalries...

...as a UAB alum I hate the Memphis Tigers with the same, if not greater, fiery revulsion that the Alabama fan in me feels towards Tennessee. It’s purely a basketball thing, but it translates over to football as well. Gotta have something to feel towards UAB football…

by Todd on May 22, 2008 1:39 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

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