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The Contenders: West Virginia

 

Making the case for Number One.

- - -

 

Voters aren’t wild about West Virginia, necessarily, but you won’t find any other Big East teams anywhere near the Mountaineers in the earliest preseason polls . The instinct to write WVU off post-Rodriguez is obvious, but give me a unanimous conference favorite with three straight top ten finishes and a serious candidate for the Trophy Which Shall Not Be Named, and I’ll give you a legitimate mythical championship aspirant. Darkhorse, at worst.

 

Bow Down. There’s really only one reason to consider the Mountaineers a mythical championship contender, and it’s the same reason they’ve carried that status into the last two seasons:

 

 

Only moreso since the Fiesta Bowl, where Pat White officially emerged from the shadow of Rich Rodriguez, puppetmaster, and Steve Slaton, partner in crime. By dominating an elite defense without the spread option mastermind or co-focal point in the backfield, White probably surpassed Tim Tebow as the most valuable player to his team every time he steps on the field – as long he’s actually on the field: the losses to South Florida (where backup Jarrett Brown committed four turnovers in the second half) and Pitt are largely attributable to White spending crucial possessions on the bench. Fully healthy against OU, White was a well-rounded terror, as he’s been most of the time in leading the offense to a fairly outrageous 38 points per game each of the last two years. When he’s in the lineup, with Noel Devine assuming the Slaton role,  there is no reason to think defenses will suddenly figure out how to defend him.

 

The Mountaineers also have an asset they’ve lacked the last two years: nonconference juice. They open at home against Auburn, a prove-it game that can instantly vault WVU into the championship picture, and play at Colorado two weeks later.

 

Bust Out. The last three years were by far the most successful in school history – only once before, in 1953-54, had WVU even finished anywhere in the final AP poll two years in a row; from 2005-07, it finished in the top ten all three years and won three January bowl games, two of them significant BCS upsets. That run is so far outside of the historical pattern, the loss of two legs from the tripod that supported it – Rodriguez and Steve Slaton – seems like a death sentence for national ambitions.

 

What’s left, outside of White and Devine, doesn’t fit any pattern of elite success. West Virginia had four outgoing  players who were voted all-Big East but weren’t even drafted  – they were, in other words, overachievers, whose success can’t be taken outside the context of Rodriguez’s guidance. National championships over the last decade – and probably longer, if anyone kept up as closely with recruiting before the age of obsession facilitated by the Internet – are exclusively the province of powerhouses that annually draw top five and top ten talent out of high school. Only once under Rodriguez did WVU even slip into the top 25  according to the gurus. Bash the gurus if you’d like (you’re wrong , but go ahead); the talent level here is nowhere near mythical championship quality across the board, especially on the offensive line and on defense. There’s no recent precedent for overcoming such a gap to win a crystal ball, nor any of its less translucent forerunners.

 

Where a win over Auburn hypothetically boosts confidence and stock among voters, a loss just as likely does the exact opposite: an early disappointment could undermine Stewart, a much-criticized hire already, and led to the sort of meltdown Louisville  endured last year in its own messy transition from a program-defining boss. Barring the hysterics of the most recent championship race, even one loss (especially if it’s to Auburn) is still like a plague to a team from the Big East.


Just enjoy the ride, man.
- - -

 

Bobbling the Handoff. I’ve personally compared Bill Stewart to Larry Coker as a grandfatherly caretaker withiffy credentials  who seems to lack the ruthless edge of a big chief, but that’s only pessimistic in the long term – it also has to acknowledge that Coker, too, inherited a bounty from his predecessor in terms of talent and trajectory, and Coker’s first Miami team in 2001 was one of the unquestioned juggernauts of the decade. This team has unique talents in White and Devine and, riding the momentum of the stunning Fiesta Bowl romp, might still have a sense of unfinished business; when Rich Rodriguez turned down Alabama in 2006, it seemed to me the reason was more about the once-in-a-career opportunity for a championship with the perfect pieces for his system, White and Slaton, in place for two more years than it was about the money or power within the program. The squad in January looked like one that still harbored those ambitions, and the addition of quality non-conference games will cut off Big East skeptics (I assume this breed still exists) if it comes down to strength of schedule debates.

 

Personnel-wise, though, this team is certainly not on the level of those Hurricanes, who were essentially an NFL farm club that only the most incompetent transition team could have screwed up. West Virginia is a one-and-half-man show that can rarely rely on a talent advantage to overcome sloppiness, adversity or good gameplanning by the opposition. It has to make the right decision and execute precisely every time, which, as the losses to South Florida and Pittsburgh the last two years show, is unrealistic. As is, apparently, Pat White holding up to a beating over a full season.

 

The sense of inevitable explosiveness will be replaced, at least initially, with the anxiety that always accompanies dramatic change. There are much dumber gambles at No. 1, but emotions aside, with the loss of its brain trust and the stiffening of the schedule outside of the Big East, the Mountaineers’ window to national greatness seems to have closed. 

 

1 recs  |  Comment 42 comments

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The Auburn Game has been moved to midseason

The WVU-Auburn game has been moved to Thursday, October 23rd, a move which seems to favor an Auburn that is installing a new offense.

The Coker analogy is there to be scrutinized. Hopefully it translates in a national championship in his first season.

by wvuhomer on May 14, 2008 9:38 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Pat White leaving had little to do with WV losing to Pitt.

by gahnki on May 14, 2008 7:31 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

They struggled to move the ball with Pat White in the game.

They scored their ONLY touchdown with the backup quarterback in the game.

Pitt played disciplined in the trenches and did not miss open tackles.

The injury to Pat White costing them the game is a fallacy.

by gahnki on May 17, 2008 11:38 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

The Contenders

Just wanted to say that I’m really enjoying this series so far.

by ffdantejones on May 15, 2008 9:05 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Personally

I think that WVU fans will rip a guy like Stewart apart… but that’s because WVU fans are rabid. and they burn couches.

I really think this year is as ripe as ever for the ‘Neers to pull it off. I think Devine will be more of a threat now that he’s not sharing the backfield with Slaton.

by ThreeNout on May 15, 2008 9:29 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

I'm a Duck fan

And I love this program so much. I was first drawn to them by Pat White and the spread offense (the same spread offense that beat Michigan twice in their first two games this year, and beat Oklahoma in a January bowl.)

Pat White’s got such nice quickness and evasiveness… he looks like a RB in that montage. I mean that in a good way.

I really have no reason to love this program, and I do not patronize the school itself or the state of West Virginia by any means. And I mean ANY means. But this is such a slick offense.

by qrsouther on May 15, 2008 11:02 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Duck Fan

Well RichRod is bringing his spread to Michigan this year, so it will be interesting to see how WVU’s spread changes. Remember WVU not only lost RichRod, they lost their OC (who called the plays in the bowl game) – so I think we will see a (at least) somewhat difference offense at WVU.

by Jim Harbaugh Scramble on May 16, 2008 1:30 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Oh I think there surely will be

They will at least try to emulate it for Pat White’s final year, at least if they ultimately want to revert to smashmouth, under center, dropback ball. Doesn’t seem like a prudent choice, but if they intend to run one of the simpler and traditional offense (I-form primary, etc.) they probably want to give it some time to get the recruits in place, just as if they were going TO the spread FROM the said pro-style offense. As will be seen in Michigan for 1-3 years.

I think it’s truly a tragedy for the program if they dump the spread altogether, and have to (purists beware) regress to a traditional offense.

by qrsouther on May 17, 2008 12:47 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

There is nothing wrong with respecting and using “traditional offenses.” There are only people who don’t understand that a team can win with ANY offense as long as they have the personnel and coaching to do so. And then they have to execute.

You are going to see a large number of teams struggle to succeed with the spread in the next few years. Only teams who have the best personnel and coaching are going to succeed with it. (ex. Florida) The spread was an equalizer when few teams ran it and teams weren’t used to defending it. Now certain spread teams are going to struggle because of the prevalence of the offense.

by gahnki on May 17, 2008 11:46 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

There's about 3 defenses that can defend the spread well

At least, the Florida, Oregon, and previously West Virginia spread style.

Those are the 3-4, the 3-3-5 stack, and 4-2-5. Most teams don’t base around these, and their best compromise would be to just come out with a Dime package for the already stretched field.

Fact is, to every offense there is an answer. To a traditional Ace-2 TE, 2, WR, 1 RB set; a 5-2 defense to beef up on the front. That or a 4-4.

What defenses need to defend a spread, most critically, is the right defensive base formations and fast LB. Smart and deceptive DEs help. DBs that defend a deep ball would be nice.

As a young spread guru myself, the variables, as with any offense, are big. USC defended the spread better than, say Washington, because they had faster LBs and just so much more talent. Then again, all teams defend the spread better than Washington.

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=VwmfJ6rCz5M

...notice how terrible the Ducks’ D is, on the flipside :/

by qrsouther on May 17, 2008 12:05 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Teams are already recruiting lighter linebackers who can cover in the passing game. I’ve also noticed some teams recruiting more DB’s because they can convert them into “rover” type players. A mix between a safety and a linebacker.

Once teams start to sell out to stop the spread then it stops being an equalizer. Now teams who specialize in I formation, power running games have the advantage because they can smash the lighter linebackers in the mouth continuously.

I think it is going to be similar to the death of the Run and Shoot offense. Parts of the offense will be integrated into other styles, but teams will no longer be able to run it solely.

And, of course, the Run and Shoot died because of zone blitzing so schemes will be developed out of base sets to slow the spread down.

by gahnki on May 17, 2008 2:34 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

You're r ight

But also, the spread isn’t solely about 4 wide, 1 RB symmetrical sets. It’s so diverse. You can run a shotgun-ace set in it too.

That’s what Rich Rodriguez would do to keep teams on their toes. He had an I-form.

A piece of information from Chip Kelly: Oregon does not have an I-form. Not even a goal line set. No QB under center formations. All is out of the shotgun, but with different amounts of TEs and WRs. We most often run 2-back sets, even moreso than 1 RB sets.

by qrsouther on May 17, 2008 3:01 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Although you know more about Oregon than I

I believe Kelly is implementing an I formation this year. IIRC you have picked up a power back who would be lined up in the fullback role with a quicker back in the traditional tailback role.

I can’t quite remember where I heard it but I believe I did.

by gahnki on May 17, 2008 3:51 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

No, he's not

They’re actually using the fullback, Adam Block, just as a powerful HB, just where Jonathan Stewart or Jeremiah Johnson would line up.

That said, he’s gonna get 0 playing time. None at all, being behind JJ, LeGarrette Blount, Andre Crenshaw, and Remene Alston.

Chip Kelly would never run an I… he does run 2-back sets though, which he uses like an I, with a powerful back throwing a block on, say, a Power option.

by qrsouther on May 18, 2008 12:57 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I think I was confused with Florida/Urban Meyer. I believe he wants to implement a power I formation with a traditional fullback this year. I believe I read it on the Florida Gator Scout.com website.

by gahnki on May 18, 2008 1:18 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Ahhhh alright

No worries. I thought you had it confused. Salright bud.

by qrsouther on May 18, 2008 4:24 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Florida used to run some kind of super I-formation where the QB is under center, and two fullbacks and a tailback all line up behind the QB in a line. It was last seen early in 2007, at least against W. Kentucky if not later. The Tebow smash replaced it later on as Kestahn Moore developed fumble issues.

Florida has used a true fullback each of the past two years with Billy Latsko and Eric Rutledge. I think the big change is 2 TE sets, since he has two excellent ones in Cornelius Ingram and Aaron Hernandez.

by Year2 on May 19, 2008 9:59 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

A Maryland I?

"Be prepared to be fucked by the long dick of the law." - Officer Slater.

by qrsouther on May 19, 2008 10:58 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Yes

I had to look it up, but yes, it’s the Maryland I. Exactly the same as this, only with two fullbacks and one tailback.

by Year2 on May 19, 2008 12:30 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Oh, and I forgot to add that Mike Bellotti has really crafted a great offense there. If he can continue to recruit well then he should be able to get the athletes he needs to run the zone read.

I really like the balance that Oregon has in their offense compared to West Virginia. The zone read option can be used so much more effectively in the passing game than a simple bubble screen.

by gahnki on May 17, 2008 2:50 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Thank you

But it’s not Bellotti. It’s Chip Kelly, the OC. He’s my hero, I model all my offense after his…

by qrsouther on May 17, 2008 2:58 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Quick question..

Was Gary Crowton there before Kelly?

by gahnki on May 17, 2008 3:52 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Yes, and he ran a power spread

The exact thing you see at LSU (no coincidence there eh?)

I never liked Crowton.

by qrsouther on May 18, 2008 12:58 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

At LSU Crowton ran about as loose of a spread as you can find. The route running for wideouts was much more in common with a 7 step drop offense. They also used a two back, fullback offense with Jacob Hester and Trindon Holliday/Keiland Williams a lot.

I know that Les Miles wanted to emphasize the power running game, but they were slated to go to the zone read option this year before Perriloux was booted. I don’t know their plans now.

by gahnki on May 18, 2008 1:06 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Yeah

I’ve been getting really tired of the far too broad usage of the term “spread offense.” LSU is running rather traditional sets, sometimes only 2 or 3 wide, and dropback passers (sans Perrilloux now.) I think all that constitutes their offense being entitled “spread offense” is the fast-pace, no huddle, and trick plays.

The only glaring spread offense teams I see in sports right now have been WVU, Oregon, Appalachian State, and Florida. Coming soon is Michigan.

I think WVU will retain the spread, after reading up on it more. I did some digging and found that they’re gonna at least try to keep it real.

by qrsouther on May 18, 2008 4:29 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Jeff Mullen is their offensive coordinator now. He previously worked at Wake Forest.

I expect a lot more passing from their offense this year.

by gahnki on May 18, 2008 6:02 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Where'd Crowton go?

"Be prepared to be fucked by the long dick of the law." - Officer Slater.

by qrsouther on May 18, 2008 6:29 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Oh wait sorry, I misread...

Jeff Mullen… not a spread OC?

"Be prepared to be fucked by the long dick of the law." - Officer Slater.

by qrsouther on May 18, 2008 6:29 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

He may have some spread experience but I did not see it at Wake. Granted, I haven’t seen many Wake Forest games but Wake ran a fair amount of play action.

In his offense at Wake there was a heavy premium on passing.

by gahnki on May 19, 2008 5:18 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Ah

"Be prepared to be fucked by the long dick of the law." - Officer Slater.

by qrsouther on May 19, 2008 11:55 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Auburn

Also coming soon: Auburn with new OC Tony Franklin.

by Year2 on May 19, 2008 10:03 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Same type of spread I mentioned?

"Be prepared to be fucked by the long dick of the law." - Officer Slater.

by qrsouther on May 19, 2008 10:58 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I’m not sure precisely how you define it, because I haven’t studied offense as much as you have. He was the OC at Troy the past two years, and having watched Florida play Troy last year I can tell you the UF and Troy systems were very similar.

Everything I’ve read about Franklin calls him a “spread offense guru,” and he famously had a consulting business that drew thousands to learn his variety of the spread.

by Year2 on May 19, 2008 12:36 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

That's the exact label given to Chip Kelly and Rich Rodriguez

I assume the tag is universal.

"Be prepared to be fucked by the long dick of the law." - Officer Slater.

by qrsouther on May 19, 2008 11:56 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Also

Also, how would you say Chris Ault’s Pistol offense compares with the pure spread offenses you mentioned? I know the name comes from the shorter depth of the QB in shotgun, but I thought other than that it was basically the spread.

by Year2 on May 19, 2008 12:39 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I love the Pistol offense. I could seriously talk about it all day. I don’t fully comprehend the zone read option other than I know that the QB is reading the b-gap on most plays, but I understand a fair amount about the Pistol.

A base formation will have three wideouts with a tight end and a tailback. There will be a split end on the opposite site of the TE with a Flanker and Slot receiver on the same side of the tight end. The offense is as pliable as the zone read so this is just a basic example.

The quarterback will receive the ball 3-5 yards behind the LoS. He will do a half turn to the non play side. After the half turn he will either hand the ball off to a running back or keep it himself. Play action passing works in reverse here. The threat of the pass opens up the run. The defense cannot overpursure for fear of a run. The half turn almost freezes the defense for a second.

This is just an extremely common example of the Pistol. It is one of the most flexible offenses I’ve ever seen. I believe it is going to be the next “big” thing as far as offenses go. And I know of one school who will be using lots of it this upcoming season.

by gahnki on May 19, 2008 5:14 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I really really tried to love the Pistol offense

As you might have been able to tell, I’m a sucker for innovative offenses and new schemes. I would call the pistol a spread offense, as I believe it’s a no-huddler.

I was hoping, sending subliminal messages to Chip Kelly to install it when I saw it ran at Nevada. I was so excited about it, and had to tell the world.

And to the ultimate surprise of me, I saw it at the Oregon Spring Game! I went to the game, and saw them mixing up the formations a lot. Which suprised me. Among seeing Shotgun-Normal, Shotgun Trips, Shotgun WR Twins sets… I eventually saw a pistol formation. I was shocked, and I practically yelled out “WHAT! A PISTOL FORMATION?!” and I was excited.

Then… I saw how it changed our game. They ran it about 3 times among 2 or 3 drives as I recalled. I was paying close attention to the formations, as to not skip a beat on our offensive pens and schemes this year. When they ran it, it was not working. The play action that succeeded with such flying colors in our spread offense was eliminated. The defense could easily see if the ball was given or not. It was too north and south for our game. Oregon’s strength, I realized, was our Tackles, and running outside them on sweeps and reads. Sure you’d see Jonathan Stewart cut it up the middle when he saw a hole, but that was even on a stretch play when there were truck driving lanes between the Guard and the Tackle.

The exact point of it is to keep the running game north and south, as in an ace-under center set, just with the QB out of the shotgun for liberal movement (if he’s a dual-threat.) It just didn’t work with Oregon’s game. I now actually hope it is not brought into Oregon’s game plans now.

A shocking change of heart for me.

(P.S., gahnki’s got it totally right in his 3rd paragraph. And that’s a definitely benefit of the formation. I just did not see this in the Oregon game. Rollouts are good, just as long as your QB can handle it. I did notice that even the most athletic QBs Oregon had, coming in as Freshman and Sophomores, had trouble with rollouts.)

by qrsouther on May 20, 2008 12:10 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Do you think the struggle with the Pistol had more to do with limited time practicing it? It doesn’t sound like heavy premium was placed on running it.

And you’re right. One of the biggest advantages is being able to have a north south running game out of the shotgun. For a team that relies on stretching defenses east-west it probably wouldn’t be as effective.

by gahnki on May 20, 2008 4:53 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I think that the potential of the formation in the Oregon offense was full

It just didn’t click with our game, that’s all. Perfect for Nevada, I guess.

by qrsouther on May 20, 2008 9:19 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

By the way

Did Pat White wear #16 at the beginning of his career?

by qrsouther on May 17, 2008 12:37 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

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